And look at them this they'll pirate it doesn't dark and you this because I think -- -- -- -- From the Patrick Phillips -- always brought to you in part by fleeing software creators of the next generation mobile and connected TV application. Broadcasting from Austin, Texas you are now experiencing. -- In our salary. I guess or stuff like that scare the country the shoe is and I'm number one hand. Pop culture at its finest the -- Phillips you know. And now here years -- maestro will be chic pantry -- From the 1920s through the 1950s. Universal Studios with Hollywood's number one studio. For monstrous movie it's haunting movie theaters worldwide with Dracula Frankenstein. And the creature from the black lagoon just to name a few. Michael Mallory and the author of the book Universal Studios monsters a legacy of horror. Joins me tonight as we explore many. The most enduring characters in movie history we'll take a look at the mythology behind the films and go behind the seats. To learn how they were created. Michael Mallory welcomed into the program. Thank you so much it's a pleasure to be here. Mike your book is a comprehensive. Look at all aspects of classic horror movies. You paint -- vividly accurate picture of Universal Studios at that time. And you spotlight many of the actors who have portrayed some of the most famous characters in history. Mike White people still get so excited about Universal Studios monsters what may -- a unique. I think what made him unique was the fact that for the vast majority of them underneath their monstrosity. Words were very human emotions. The Frankenstein's monster I believe exemplifies that the best he has a trial. He is any enormous brutally strong very confused child but. You can see through that ugly exterior. -- -- this poor guy who's just been unleashed in the world everybody hates him nobody looks at me trying to get by. Even his own father quote unquote really wants nothing to put them. And that gives -- an awful lot of humanity and that I think is what people respond to them in quite a few of the universal characters. As I flipped through the pages of your book there are some really beautiful photos Mike and some of the greatest behind the scenes information on the films and I've ever read. As you were doing your research was there one thing that stood out to you were surprised you that maybe you just hadn't eaten only before. I have been up saying that these movies. Are so long that I've I've read about them for years even before doing the book. I I think maybe one of the more surprising things that I learned was simply. Who was involved in why they were involved in the -- a lot of the filmmakers came from Germany. Which I believe is the birthplace of the horror -- -- 1940s. And many of them left for obvious reasons it was coming to power and a lot of these guys just wanted to to leave you know before something really terrible happened. Until they brought that German expressionism accessibility. With them. And a lot of them ended up Universal Studios. You can kind of see continuance from the movies that were made in Germany. But but just -- video. Ended up being universal I was I was kind of surprised to find out and how many of them it worked together previously in Germany. Let's talk about some of universal's most famous monsters we. Know that many of the universal films of the 1920s consisted of monsters murder in the macabre. But when Dracula who of course was portrayed maybe a little of -- first burst onto the silver screen in 1931. Things seem to really begin to ramp up and I remember reading somewhere my dad. It was reported at the time that people actually fainted in the theaters during the film have you heard that before. Oh yes I have heard that and I eat I honestly don't know if that was really the case certain that was just some really great studio hype. Video was a little is that the head of the studio Karl leveling vocal Karl as he was called. With a little bit hesitant about this -- player proposition it was his -- relatively junior. That was really eager to. Two by Dracula make the movie they do the other horrible -- So -- Dracula first came out the hedge their bets a little bit but it was released. Valentine's Day. Witnessed took BS slogan the weirdest love story ever told. They didn't come up and say this to -- missing you screaming from the theater. Though they hedge their bets a little bit. What makes Dracula so unique it if people really did. -- in media audience. It was because this was the first American film where the supernatural was presented at face value. The vampire didn't turn out to be the detective in disguise. Or the monster didn't turn out to be had here to the reading level will who dresses up and tries to kill people are scared about all of the house. This really -- the vampire and two. To emphasize that. There was a little code at the end of the bill which no longer exists but you have this the dvd copy of the movie. Where Edwards and -- the actor who played that a professor about helping. Comes out and -- we hope by a little movie excited view im thrilled you. But here expecting it to stay we're all actors it's double B you know it's -- it's okay. And the stability. Is. And then you walk cold tonight. In the dark of the theater alone remember. My frame. There are such. Audience that we're not quite used to that -- but -- that they became news could be where they were quite that titillated by it. There are so many iconic things in that film from the use of Swan Lake. For the film's soundtrack to the actual explanation of vampires finally. Can you give us some insight might as to what was going on behind the scenes. Of direct. Well wolf first of all -- you mention Swan Lake I'm not sure who -- universal it was that was fascinated by that soon. But it shows up time and time and time again in the early thirties movies it's also in the -- -- it was kind of the generic -- because there really isn't the music soundtrack. This because him Dracula or Frankenstein. Or very much of the money. What was going on behind the scenes was Dracula had I hit on Broadway. And up to that point. A lot of movies were based either on classic fiction novel. Or they were based on Broadway plays where they were -- you know words they were basically just -- that the spartans are shooting. But. Dracula has been quite a hit on Broadway in the late nineteen qualities that was touring the country it -- touring company. And so it was snapped up there's a good picture. -- prospect. And the studio had hoped. To lure Lon Cheney back left Cheney of course has done. -- -- -- -- Saddam in the federal of the opera in the 1920s. He then moved over to MGM where -- became one of the biggest stars in Hollywood if it's not the biggest at that time. If universal really would love to get that got him back into the fold let it work. And so they were hoping that maybe they could get Cheney on a -- out to play Dracula they were trying to tailor the script forum. They were hiring. His favorite director of television Tod Browning all of this was to sweeten the pot to try to get training from MGM. Well as we all know -- became ill and died in there was never any set deal that he was going to play the part. Despite the rumors it was it was just of the negotiation and that talking phase. So once they were without Cheney. The studio wanted to use an actor named Conrad fight it was a German actor who would appeared in the the classic expression -- build the cabinet of doctor Karla -- in 1919. And went on to play about these in the forties in Casablanca felt like. -- -- like decided to go back to. Germany once sound came in because the other thick accent. And so they went -- realistic people that they were talking about playing Dracula including Paul Muni if you can believe it. And an actor named Chester Morris who would not -- -- Black Sea. Who I can't think of an actor less suited for Dracula -- that you know maybe Bob Hoskins or something. And they really did not want to cast to -- the ghost city. Unbelievably so. It got to the point where -- goes he was campaigning for the role they knew he knew what he had done it on stage he had already worked with Browning. And everybody else was falling by the wayside so look -- was the seventh choice for the role and and of course you know as -- as they say. The rest is history he he that it became Dracula and Dracula became Baylor what goes. This. Q do you know. The night. -- -- -- Today. Yeah he's lived it literally that life style. Of Dracula to some degree. The -- it was an incredibly theatrical. Personality. The kind of guy who would go into a restaurant and still perform because he thought it was expected of him. It's so what he would reform was -- Dracula persona. And as as time went -- he had a rather. Unfortunate career after is 1930s startup. And he developed something of a love hate relationship with the role where he desperately wanted to escape that. They do he wanted to do comedy he he wanted to do so many other things he wanted to do classic theater in classic roles. It's so he didn't want to do Dracula but he also rankled whatever another actor was cast in the part. And so he would always end up going back to work though he only went back to a one time in the film he did score a lot of stage throughout the forties and fifties the role. After the success of Dracula. It was a no brainer pardon upon. That Frankenstein would also get the big screen treatment. This time the monster was none other than Boris Karloff. Featuring monstrous make up by Jack pierce. Mike were there any challenges in bringing this film to life. Yes. There were a lot of challenges. He went through a birthing process that was. That was complicated that best. And ironically the studio about wanting to who have Bailiwick OC is Dracula. When they finally did signing him as Dracula they signed him to a two picture contract. And the second picture was going to be Frankenstein. What goes because they were seeking him out for the role of doctor Frankenstein and instead they wanted him to play the monster. -- like that idea very much. The he was very proud of his. -- Continental features of that wonderful voice but he had a heated like the idea of being buried under make up the grunting thought it was beneath them. But he was still in the running right up to the point where James Whale. The director who who ended up taking over the film team yes we'll was still considering. Would go see as the monster almost to the Bay Area. But he did seem car -- in this stage production of of a play where he played a prisoner who was rather hulking -- saying. And he thought that he had the qualities for the monster even though. -- at that time was very very lead and not you know physically imposing. But the they obviously don't give up they gave -- a costume that weighed. About thirty Powell said that that incredible makeup job by Jack Beers as you said. They went through a lot of different stages and testing get. That was really a form of torture to where particularly since the movie was shot in the middle of August. To 931 what it was ninety degrees and if this poor guy buried under all this stuff stumping around that kind of cease. -- always said that it you know effect that he could never have a right cost -- he had two different costumes. He would Wear one. It would be totally. But drenched by the end of the shooting day paying it out that he would put the other one that on the third -- he put the first one on it wouldn't be dry yet it would still be calamity. But he could look like putting out a -- trial of every single day. But then in typical -- fashion he would have but it helped me get -- Erik yeah. Yeah. Belittle all seem to work because folks really in truly Frankenstein. So much in fact that the studio decided they would marry him the bride of Frankenstein was soon born. And Michael they managed to improve several things in this when compared to the original for instance they added some humor and the overall look improved. Why is it that you think -- people responded so positively to the sequel. Well as you say I think it it hit something something for everybody. It definitely had the thrill. But he did have that quirky sense of humor that seems whale was noted for. It has been extremely bizarre character called doctor Pretoria has played player does that picture. This simply had not been seen on screen that that time particularly in America. You know he was a bad doctor but he was also very walk station enough evidence that you don't have to look. Too awfully hard to find the subtext between he and Ed Henry Frankenstein. It at the mystery element of the bride. The entire movie is it will lead up to the revelation of this character the bride of Frankenstein. And then she -- screen for about two minutes. If that's it's it's one of most notable cameos in film history. And that of course held -- -- -- who played the role isn't credited. And in depth -- she's credited as playing Mary Shelley which he did in the prologue and -- of the film interest. It. It also part of it is just Hollywood itself. If you look at movies from the very early thirties you know it. Most people don't realize we pick up sound coming in in 1927 -- the in the next week every movie was spelled. That is not the case at all there were still movie theaters. Showing silent films right up until 19301930. Want. So a lot of the country was you have primitive. Motion pictures still into the thirties. But the advancement that bill that made between. Say 1930 and even 1935 with just monumental. In terms of photography in terms of music recording. Bride of Frankenstein as one of the greatest musical scores ever. In terms of photography. They didn't turn the things you could get away -- screen even though. We have the production code -- the original Frankenstein they they were forced to cut out a couple of -- Both doctor Frankenstein's where he says now I know what it's like the field yet to be god. And that didn't fly very well. But that's the thirty progressed you could you could get a little bit into that kind of blasphemous idea of being god creating characters -- And that sort of thing. -- did you have -- Even though he personally thought having the monster hawk was not a good idea. It's certainly worked. Did it work to humanize the character. Even has some of this -- moment he's got a couple of comedic bits in there which. You would have thought possible in the original. And the character in bride of Frankenstein of the original monster was a lonely child in bride of Frankenstein is -- rebellious teenager. And so again I think people could relate to that what do they were a teenager at the parent of a teenager. And Mike that music that you touched on really was incredible lyrical. -- That was used by -- foxman and one and a wonderful choice because it really does have that it's not quite. You -- and sound to it and get a beautiful. If it's beautiful music and sometimes. It it seems like it shouldn't go with what's happening on the screen that the creation sequence. Is is this wonderful lyrical lush orchestration. That it has nothing to do -- Shadows and monsters and and bubbling polite but had to work together perfectly they complement each other perfectly. And throughout the -- you also have this. This undercurrent of the ripped -- you have as well well well what form. Like a heart -- -- just going on very subtly under this whole thing is the the bride is brought to life and develop the heart. He's alive and. Do you. I don't think. Hello this and see -- you -- this is just the best. Did it's -- every respect. Mike how did they manage with all of the other films coming out of the same time to keep it so fresh. All the by the time the creature from the black -- came along. The earlier monsters. Had more or less have to -- Those World War II changed audiences see quite a bit. And audiences -- bell. More into crime dramas and build the warrant realism that you don't greedy kinds of stories. Ripped from today's headlines and all that sort of thing. And as as wonderful as the mummy and the wolf man are you can't really say they're realistic. And -- -- they stop doing those kinds of movies if you did see a monster popping up. In the late 1940s and early 1950s. They were probably menacing Abbott & Costello. Had they became rather -- So we universal did was -- turn to more science fiction. Time beams that that very popular as time. And with the creature from the black what do they get out of this brilliant idea. Which was to build the old style of horror movies with the -- that is still somewhat sympathetic. And science fiction and those two elements that -- the creature. He's the guy he's he doesn't want to kill people but they're invading his territory there encroaching into his. This swap is homeland is what do. And they're trying to capture revenue should've been do all the that it seems to have. But he has a real beauty of the -- equality what he discovers the and the girl. You know she goes for his women he's right underneath her watching her going go to the big thing. And you know granted Julie Adams -- know what he's quite beating -- would I would do that anybody but. Even do this deal man gets taken. It's so he proved to be really the last hugely popular universal monster in the classic sense of being a monster. And went on to do another very classic universal innovation which was the sequel to -- -- to do two more sequels. And that's something interesting too that I've always loved about the creature from the black -- it's one in my favor universal films. Is the fact that it does actually start out like a documentary so it's a little creepy. In and it basically speaks to exactly what you're saying which is that they were kind of melding the two. Types of films. Fantastic movie love it and especially in 3-D what a great three B. Movie yes it is it is wonderful and three B and the realism was was part of what was being done the time in in almost every genre. You would start no where they you know this is the city here's the story kind of kind of idea. That brought you weird that it makes it realistic. And that actually paid off when you have a horror movie. Because then I consider the creature from the black would be to deal or movie even though it as best science fiction environment. Because once you've established the realism and you have all these doctor characters talking like doctors said. And talking scientifically. You buy the creature wholeheartedly because you have been drawn into the realistic aspects of -- so you just go right along with this. This great big scaly guy. Mike what is it about these films these classic movies that no matter how many times we've seen them every time we watch. We're still scared. No matter what quote the monster was or who was coming at you. With their hand outreach into the camera making you stuck under the theater -- There was still a sense of psychological. Terror about them. What you really think about this the idea of taking of the brain out of out of somebody. And putting it into somebody else's head. Order the one that always creeped me out what -- was hit it less salty about it it the idea of the money. This poor guy who was put into -- box for 4000. Years if he's still alive. And he spent 4000. Acres it in this box. He just purely have a psychological basis. That is absolutely terrifying. But the concept that the that the guy who cannot die Dracula he wants the -- -- -- The wolf -- of the characters. Who doesn't want to to do these things but he's changing it stopped himself. From changing he isn't like doctor Jekyll and mr. Hyde who deliberately takes the potion in order to change he's a victim of circumstance. If he can't get out of that. There's there's that psychological aspect to it that is frightening just on top of the wonderful Jack pierce make up. In the great music. And the basis plunging that you from the screen. You know the kind of acting bit Forrest Kerr a law that. In -- -- -- were able to do with they would look into the camera straight through it it looked directly at you sitting in the movie theater. If I think that is what the people respond to as well as simply the element of fun. I guess there is danger in these movies -- bad characters are getting killed you know here comes again the -- years somebody. Who is creeping up behind you what he's going to choke you but. It's not. Glory it's about bloody it's not sickening. If it's scary. And I think a lot of the horror movies that they even though there are many many good ones. Simply go for gross out -- can't be effective. Well as if you have nothing else but grows so slowly but it'll go to hospital and at watch operation. And so I think that's that the element to universal had that maybe some filmmakers today. Our are -- -- properly. What might think so much for being here on the program. -- a lot of fun. Patrick I have enjoyed it. Have media many -- a lot of this is a great. The name of the book is Universal Studios monsters a legacy of horror its author Michael Mallory. For more information on Michael you can check out his website at Michael Mallory dock. How will we turn. There's a whole new little look for -- Yeah thank goodness I'm like -- yeah. -- just told you want to participate -- -- A majority share your gesture -- apartment yeah -- -- and I am Georgia Maryland you're listening to the Patrick Phil's show. An inspiration to many author RL Stein is the number one bestselling children's author in the entire world. He's perhaps best known for his fierce street and goosebumps series of books. And tonight you'll be the first guest to ever give me goose bumps it's a pleasure to welcome RL Stein into the program -- Bob welcome them. Bet that's quite a build up Patrick got -- little lighter note I can follow that's. You already have I mean look at your incredible career and and lets you goose bumps started in what 1992. ID 292. Or Everett not under -- -- -- at. Johns. Hard to believe it certainly is viewed as -- scaring kids is a great job. Great job. What is the fine line Bob between what how scary can begin in these books I know a lot of my friends have said you know I was really -- Dallas housing can I couldn't get through some of the books. Is there a fine line -- you. I have didn't say I'm terrified of dummies now I'm terrified of mask. Think that's kind of -- -- there's a fine line that I you know I've been doing this so long I think I know these kids might seven good twelve year old pretty well. And know how not to go too far I did the trick is to make sure they know it's all just a creepy fantasy. And that nothing is real I try to keep the real world out that much as I can. One of the things I love about your balance is. And I noticed reading you come from humor you originally wrote. Bonnie that's all I -- -- wanted to be funny but you know I wrote about a hundred joke books -- kids don't really wanted to come. I don't know I didn't I didn't really ever hit until I got scary. When did the transition happened for you Bob when did you go from. In the late eighties I guess I -- think humor magazine called bananas for ten years. And just had a great time it was funny ghetto and is doing funny kids books. And -- an editor asks me I'll bet you could write a good scary novel go all right -- noble -- blind date. It's embarrassing she even gave me that title what they've -- my idea to be scared. I don't know where all I wrote this book. And it was a number one best seller. Thanks struck a chord here I've found something kids like. That I've been scary ever since. And I've actually got to a Twitter question here from Susan. Who is wanted to know where you ever -- rod sterling is the Twilight Zone. Well yeah he's one of my idol. Well it's really was very important to me. And growing up I mean I never missed the -- -- -- and I think she would sound very influential on me. In a lot of people they say you're kind of the they can -- version of Stephen -- How do you respond to that is is. Well -- everyone always says sons Stephen -- so -- Stephen King for kids but a few people have been nice enough to say. That he's RL -- for adults. Is very -- sell them but I'm very glad and I think she's a wonderful storyteller. The ever so talented RL Stein joining me on the program. Thanks for taking some time. Patrick I enjoyed it very much and I hope you have a scary day. Thanks so much and happy Halloween to you.